It took a determined effort not to blabber about the reservation policy. I concede to the urge today. When I first ‘understood’ the concept of reservation about ten years ago, I instinctively felt it was an absurd thing to have. Ten more years of ‘education’ since did not change my view too much. When I heard of the new reservation policy of the congress govt., I joined thousands of others in a knee-jerk reaction. I joined Anti-reservation communities on orkut, protect-IIT-excellence groups on yahoo, gave ideas and discussed plans for peaceful protests,marches, petitions, fasts, class boycotts.
Today, I hold a diametrical stand. I am for reservations. Reservations are a must. To offset centuries of systematic deprivation of opportunities, the reservations are like bitter pills to cure a chronic ailment.
49.5% of the seats reserved for the people that make up 70-80% of the population. The flip side of it: 50.5% of the seats for 20-30% of the population. [ here, I contend that hardly any student belonging to the reserved classes gets a seat outside the quota.]49.5% for 80% of the population doesnt appear too monstrous for me, now. I hear voices that say that presently we live with almost no discrimination against the lower classes and that centuries of deprivation should have no bearing on the present opportunities one has. The very fact that we intend to protest the 49.5% reservation shows that these classes have been getting lesser than that percentage of seats. Why does this happen? Isn’t the deprivation of yesteryears the reason? Or do we reason that ‘merit’ is endowed by a forward class birth? Do we say that the people of the forward classes have better mental capabilities than the people of the backward classes?
If we believe mental capabilities are not related to ones caste/class, then the low percent of backward class students in educational institutions clearly points to an affect of the systematic deprivation followed for centuries. Alternately, if we believe that mental capabilities are indeed related to ones caste/class, it shows that we still havent shed our cultural/class prejudices.
The backward classes are still backward due to centuries of subjugation. The other argument against reservation is that only the creamy layer of the SCs/STs are benifitting from the current reservations. But, one must realise that there would not have been a ‘creamy layer’ but for the reservations. There is an argument that reservation policy should be modified by excluding this ‘creamy layer’. I support this argument. There is also an argument that the reservations have outlived their utility. I refuse to accept this. Everytime I visit my ancestral village, I am reminded of the caste/class prejudices. The dalits just do not have even compareable opportunities or facilities on par with the others.
Though supporting reservations, I have arguments against the present model of reservations. Will the lower levels of merit needed for the backward classes come in the way of them getting better? As an example, if 60% mark is the cutoff for a forward class student and 40% for a bakward class student, isn’t it likely that a backward class student will settle to cross 40% and not aim higher? Are we breeding mediocrity in the very classes that we intend to help?
Does “brand value” of higher institutions take a beating? Most companies that recruited from IITM this season tested the students on nothing that they would have learnt at IIT. Most tested the ‘aptitude’ of the students. It is arguable that people with the same or higher aptitude but not studying in IIT do not get placed at the same level. The recruiters’ fish is not someone who is educated at the IIT, but someone who has made it to the IIT. The reservations are likely to lower the brand image of the IITs. This may not happen in a hurry, but will surely.
Even people like me who are convinced of the need for reservations are wary to accept the proposal of reservation because they fear that once reserved, the seats remain reserved. It is highly unlikely that there will be a political will to roll back resevations.
What I consider an ideal path to follow is
- Have reservations based on caste/class.
- Exclude the ‘creamy layer’and also decrease percent reserved with the final aim of making it zero. ‘creamy layer’ needs to be defined and redefined every few years.
- Increase spending on primary and secondary education so that atleast in the future, children of all classes have compareable learning opportunities.
- Reduce subsidising technical/higher education and instead provide loans/scholarships based on merit/economic status.
Reservations, even at the expense of merit, are a must for the overall development of the nation as opposed to the development of a priviliged few and the stagnation of the majority. Safeguards are to be in place to prevent misuse. Forward class fears of never ending reservations need to be addressed by taking steps to exclude the ‘creamy layer’ of the backward classes.
Reddy,
If reservations are to persist, then I see no reason why the Statesmen should crib about Brain-Drain in India.
If Indian Rulers pledge to make it a secular state, then there should be no place for reservations or any other form of special allowances to any class(es).
Privileges on the basis of caste, creed or sex should be condemned and the sole yardsticks should be economic status and merit.
Its no unwritten rule that all OBCs,SC/STs are poverty-struck and that all forward caste people are well above the poverty line. What about those forward caste people who are well below the poverty line? They are benefitted in no way from such a policy.
@ Harshie…
Secular state. yes. but you must realise that a few classes have been traditionally deprived of the same opportunities as the others.
just as an analogy, consider a running race. in which a few people are well trained, well fed. a few are well fed, but not well trained. and a few have no legs. How fair is it to expect all of them to compete ?
If you have read my blog clearly, I tried to explain why caste based reservations are needed and not just economic status based. economic inequalities can be taken care by scholarships and loans but social inequalities can be taken care only by reservations.
final aim of making it zero is a big fight. because, it is a luxury now. tomorrow it’ll be a comfort. day after, they start calling it a necessity. then who ever tries to change it will be thrown out of power.
reservation system itself is shit. even Dr. Ambedkar agreed to it. Even he wanted a country free of resservations after a couple of decades of introducing it. reservations shudn’t be given on caste/religion/gender/race basis. they hav to be given to ppl who are not having enough opportunities – the poor.
I dont agree with you at all. Reservations based on the caste is not the right way to do it. The fact that you’re giving someone a seat in an educational institution over another meritorious student obviously promotes casteism. It is not the opportunity that is being showered on backward classes that counts but the difference you’re showing in people based on caste/sect. If everyone in this country is to stand equal, then the idea of reservation has to be obliterated.
I dont think the reservation was ever promoted to provide opportunities to backward class people but it is always more or less a ploy to attract votes. To think the announcement came when the Tamilnadu elections are close makes you wonder.. doesnt it? DMK’s manifesto promises minority reservation.. makes sense for the congress to play along dont you think?
My take on this is simple..
Any Govt. which feels the need t increase reservation % for whatever reason has accepted failure.
Reservations were introduced with a very good intention in mind. Agreed.
So, somewhere over the years, they should have reduced. They didn’t. Now talking of increasing it, doesn’t make sense. I question the veracity of calling these people BCs or OBCs.
Even at HPS, we had reservations. These people had the same opportunities as all of us, for free. They were pretty good at sports but hardly if ever, passed in all the subjects. They were still allowed to move to the next higher class.
Only thing I do agree with however is that we cannot gauge social status by financial status.
My solution to this would be make eduaction till class 12 completely free. That is, in Govt. institutions. Get them to a certain competitive standard. And make it free. This will ensure, or atleast I hope it will, that every 16/17 year old will be on the same footing and can compete for higher educational institutions.
Only prob is, I got my seat in Engg cos of the 33% reservation for women in AP
(
And that’s why I didn’t really wanna comment. Forget that everything is based on individual potential.
Hypocrisy maybe??
I challenge the concerned jokers to go ahead with 50% Reservation for not only students but also for teaching staff. Its better that Government builds one more IIT and IIM and call them RIIT and RIIM (R stands for you know what) and let others live in peace and maintain their standards. RIIT and RIIM may be put under AICTE for added glory. It will be wiser for the government to offer the best of education from primary education and make them face the world rather than give them feel of artificial security by reservation.
Naam Arjun Raknewala sab Yudh nahi jeeet saktein
aur IIT IIM koi Kurushetra bi nahi hein
Na is Arjun ke paas koi Krishn bhi hai
Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya Sathuskratham
Dharma samsdha banarthaya sambavami yuge yuge
Tora Tora Tora
@ dilip and Jagdish
please dont give in to emotions. It could be true that the timing of the announcement is a political gimmick, but the need for caste based reservations is always there, albeit with a few safeguards. I’ve tried to argue why caste based reservations are a must. you either missed the point or where too overwhelmed by emotions to notice it. If you believe my arguments dont stand, please give reasons. pure emotonal outburst will not help matters.
@ divya…
Our views are in total coherence. So you agree that you are NOT against reservations but are against MISUSE of reservations?
@ camel post and divya….
As you must have noticed, I have tried to lay emphasis also on the importance of primary education. but any reforms in primary education even if started immediately will take a couple of decades to materialise as equal opportunities for all classes. Reservation is NOT a solution, but an indispensible temporary measure.
Even most among us who realise the need for better spending on primary education will have problems if the govt. decides to reduce spending on higher education for the sake of primary education. highly hypocritical.
@ ALL…
No one in his right mind will oppose reservations.
most ‘arguments’ against reservations i see are a result of emotional outbursts and knee-jerk reactions. Please think with a clear mind and you are sure to realise the importance of supporting the backward classes with reservations. What we actually are against is the misuse of reservations.
What we need is not protests against reservation but a fight to incorporate necessary safeguards.
Great blog!!
http://barbarindians.blogspot.com/
tch tch…cant believe u stand for reservations. If you go through the mission objective of IITM, you will see that IITM is supposed to be comparable to MIT and here we are compromising on the quality of the students entering the premier institutes of the country. Damn the reservations! Damn the politicians! the country itself is damned!
get urself treated by a doctor who earned his MBBS, MD, DM by reservation
@ Rahul…Even I cannot believe I’m pro-reservation.
@ giessippe… with that comment you prove yourself to be mentally sick. When I go to a doctor, I do not care to ask him his caste. Also, I do not know anyone else who does that.
hey could u send me your mail id?
“here, I contend that hardly any student belonging to the reserved classes gets a seat outside the quota” !!! Rubbish…. Get ya facts right dude!!! The skewed calculations you put up don’t help your cause very much. I would also like to know why a person would flip over from one side of the coin to the other??? Why did this “reservation bashing Orkutite” become a saint for the backward classes??? And I still do not understand(No clear explanation made anywhere in your post) why you oppose Economic Considerations??? just cannot digest what you wanted to say….
It’s not that I am up in arms against ya. All I am trying to voice out is my disapproval to the thoughts you possess!!!
@ Aditya…
How many people of the reserved classes do you know in KGP who got in outside the quota?
skewed calculations? My post has no calculations. only four numbers and these numbers(percentages) are facts.
Why I changed froma staunch anti-reservation believer into the saint of the backward classes? A professor at college changed my views.
I do not oppose reservations based on economic considerations. but I only contend that economic inequalities can be offset by means of scholarships/loans etc. . Reservations are not needed.
Diapproval is welcome. but please state reasons. mere “your ideas do not hold” wont help… give me “your ideas do not hold because…”
I have seen reserved people get through JEE in the general category without using their quota, Guess they heard their conscience…. That’s a fact for sure and I dont name them here.
Skewed calculations do not necessarily means numbers at large… By everything you say in the 3rd para of ya post, you are painting a distorted picture of the present scenario.
And another reason why i despise reservations is the fact that generations of the same family go on using this quota… those in oblivion remain there itself.. the father and grandfather of one friend of the reserved category are high level officers… he owns a laptop, a high end mobile and what not??? Do you think he really needs to get in through the quota and pay almost no fees in the insti??? This is the reason I ask for single generation utilisation of the reservation as well as economic status consideration.
Now hope I put forward my ideas……
You know what…GCP’s comment actually makes sense. when you go to a doctor, you normally wudnt ask him his caste…you just look at his qualifications. cos it takes a real good candidate to get thru the medical exams. Now what the reservations does is it makes a student of lower caliber an MBBS or an MD or whatever instead of a true stud, who is denied cos of lesser seats available for the general category. so wud u trust a doctor to operate on ur loved ones, who just about makes the bar in the exam cos of the brilliance of our government or wud u prefer to have a doctor who actually merits being in the place where he is. If things turn out the way the govt is planning….then you might have to put ur caste also on the resume soon.
I think your point of view is wrong. You are saying 70-80% population is competing for 49.5% seats. If that is the case, then why is a guy (BC/SC/ST) with 50000 (or even more) rank gets a seat in govt. engineering college where as an OC guy with much much lesser rank has to struggle to get into any damn college. I think you have to look at the percentages of people attending JEE. Yes, BC/SC/STs are 70-80% of the total population, but 70-80% of JEE applicants are not BC/SC/STs. Hope I made my point clear.
JK
@rahul and gcp: Its ridiculous to say that ppl of lower caliber go on to become an MBBS. doesnt mean that every god damn higher caste guy will make a better doctor. People dont just become doctors because they attend a medical school. You still have to get through the exams and compete with the other guys. get your perspective right before you say things like that.
@indra: Your thinking is flawed when you say you want to support reservation. Here are my reasons:
1. The current reservation of 22% is more than enough at present in IIT’s since the number of people who qualify even with reduced qualification marks are quite less than the no. of seats. The remaining seats are given to people after one year of Preparatory course. Some people drop out after the course. So effectively some seats always remain. So increasing the seats would result in more seats remaining unfilled or decreasing the qualifying mark to accomodate more backward class people. Would you really support such an idea?
2. In case of places other than IIT’s the seats which are remaining after they’re filled by backward classes are usually given to general quota guys. tell me why should a guy with a better rank than the backward class guy wait and take the leftovers?
3. Oppression for years might be your reason to support caste based reservations but seriously with this kind of atmosphere would a backward class guy be able to mingle with everyone in the institute? wouldnt this lead to seggregation of ppl into different classes like we’ve gult gumbal, mallu gumbal and such. In time we will see gumbals based on caste. How good is that?
4. Finally, how deserving would a backward class guy feel when he gets a seat in the institute based on reservation?
My point is.. merit should not go unrewarded. Years of oppression is no reason to give them freebies. The idea is to be able to provide them necessary things like basic education and awareness. Eventually, they should be able to mingle with everyone proudly that theyre deserving of what they’ve got. They should be able to compete with everyone on the same footing. This goes for women too, who want equality among men and women but claim reservation and demand for more.
If those reasons dont sound good enough for you. I dont know what else can.
@jagadeesh
dude…do you even know how to read?? i was clearly referring to caliber of the incoming student after the reservation is made. With due respect to all the reserved candidates in IIT’s and elsewhere, have you seen their standards when compared to the general students. i am sure if he/she is of comparable caliber with tht of a “high caste” guy he would get in without the reservation. dont comment without going through stuff properly…jus irritates others.
@rahul: Dude! if you could read, you would’ve spelled my name right. Anyway, agreed they’re not as good as the general guys maybe but you’re assuming that every other general guy is better than them. And i dont think thats right. 6 pointer or 9 pointer, the fact that these people complete the course successfully ensures the fact that they’re good enough to put up a Dr. before their name. There are bad doctors but not necesssarily they’re all reserved category people and that is my point.
Dear
You have sufficiantly established your fondness and obsession for your own blog.
Although your blog does not point ot anything better than the billions of essays published on the same topic, you have gone onto people’s blog, ridiculed their blogs and have asked them to read your own. Well this is the lowest that you can stoop to get people to read your blog.
You would better off be writing – “This-is-what-i-did-today” blogs. In that case you wouldn’t have to publicise your blog in such a venemous manner.
hey,this is wrong mr unlinkly genius.
reservations dont build the nation insted it will crop it down. if a person who is not deserved to be a docter is given an mbbs certification how do u accept his treatment??? he cant even write the prescription properlty then how can he treat u??
dont think tat by reservation only worthfull candidates come to hand.we get an junk of proffestionls who are not capable of doing there job, the govt should only support the ppl who are eligble to be a professional.
i am strongly against the resrvation and i hope eveyone understands the reservation concept in depth..
@ anonymous 1. thnx for the advice. will try to follow it.
@ anonymous 2. You must realise that by reservations we do not give MBBS certification to someone that doesnt deserve it. We only give admission into the MBBS course.
I hope you are sane enough to realise this first.
hey sandy…
yeah its true tat he is not given mbbs certification but it stops from other person who is capable of pursuing the valuable degree… even if a uncapable guy comes under reservation he can get through the degree through many means..i donno how strict it is in iits but it rather effects in other colleges…
Lot of people get sympathetic and apologetic when the learn about the years of oppression that has been carried about in the name of caste. This oppression has resulted in the economic subjugation of these castes.
Regarding your view on reservations based on economic condition:
You think that is not necessary because one can get scholarships and loans and still get through his education. I think you are contradicting your own argument here. Take a case of a poor “forward caste” person who cannot earn enough to give a decent education to his kids. Say, the kids complete their schooling somehow, do you think they have the same facilities and opportunities to be able to compete with others from sound financial background?
You will use the same logic if asked why you want to provide reservation to someone from a particular caste.
So caste or no caste, the handicap comes from the economic background. The handicap that comes from the caste is different and cannot be solved by reservations.
Another question to answer is ,”What do you think reservations based on caste would achieve?” In my view, it will provide means to elevate the economic status of those concerned. Nothing more than that!!!
What about the social status? What about treating everybody equally? In order to understand the gravity of caste based inequality you need to understand what really goes on there. When you visit your ancestral village next time try finding out how many people will embrace an SC knowing that this SC is an Engineer. Will they look upto him and admire him or still privately look down upon him because he is an SC. I am pretty sure the second thing will happen.
The point here is, The social injustice based on caste cannot be reverted or corrected by educational quotas like this. What is really needed is abolishing the caste system. I have blogged my views on http://politeindian.wordpress.com
Nobody was more concerned about the SC/ST than Ambedkar himself. You should read his “Annhilation of Castes.” It is very nice read for anybody trying to understand the caste system and its anamolies. I have a link to the book on my blog.
In essence there are two different problems and people are trying to solve the two with one solution which cannot achieve the desired goal. The current populist measures adopted by politicians are only worsening the real problem and are further dividing an already divided society.
So what shuold happen is,
1. Caste System Be Abolished
2. Reservation based on economic criteria and that too till the time we build our primary/secondary school infrastructure such that every kid can get a decent education.
3. Strict monitoring of these policies and periodic evaluation of their success or failure.
Once the evil of caste is vanquished then we can fight the classic class war insted of the distorted caste war.
If a person from a certain backward caste has knowledge about educational institutions, education, educational opportunities and about the reservations they have…he is not in such a deprived situation as you were talking…and these are the people who are utilising the reservations.
The only way you can stop misuse of reservations is to remove caste based reseration as there is no point if it is not serving the purpose.
I neither agree with reservation based on economic condition of the people…you can give scholarships because for all the successful people education was not taught…and you’ld study the same thing whether you are in a private or govt school if have the right attitude.
There are lot of rich people who can afford to spend on good coachings and tutions which normal people might not…then you cant ask for reservation for them too right??
you are a jnu types,self absorbed, pseudo westernized and a confused dumbo…:)
your arguments are so vacuous that I feel nauseated at my seat.
Dude, get a life, you have wasted your education and now fo us a favor by discontinuing this blog. plzzzzz